Vanessa Strategy by erdraug

Vanessa 101

Somebody on VFDC asked for some very basic advice so i tried by best. As usual, i only copied my own stuff - the rest can be found in the original thread. Anyway:

Considering everybody's first contact with vanessa is from her default style we'll start with that.

DS Vane's best entry-level throw is f+p+g - thank god too because you'll get it a lot when you miss the timing on her hit-thtrows ;)

Easy combos, well, that's kinda harder…

From DS her easiest combo starter is df+p+k. Continue with p+k,p;p,p,pkg float.

That's a high move though. She sort of lacks easy mid combo starters. On simple hit you have df+k+g which requires you to quickly input f+p+g. The timing can be tricky at the beginning but notice that the f+p+g input is the same as the throw we just mentioned! There's also f+p+k,p and u+k which guarantees an u+p pounce but they are retarded slow, amongst other problems. On counterhit (yellow flash) you have f+k which again requires quickly inputting f+p+g for the hit-throw (again the same throw input!) and G+d/u+p, the weird side-punch for an easy p+k,pkg followup. That move can get you into trouble though because if your opponent counterhits you instead, vane might end up sidecrumpled :_(

This wall of text can be summed up as if you can't consistently perform vane's DS hit-throws than forget about combo starters and poke away. Unfortunately if poking "is honestly beginning to bore you" DS is not much fun.

Introducing the other style!

Best entry level throw from OS is probably df,df+p+g. It does good damage for such an easy input and it will fake an opponent who's used to breaking f+p+g ;-) Rest assured though, her standard f+p+g throw is there if you need it.

For a high combo starter you have f+p+k > pounce. Fast, strong & demoralizing move. There's also uf+p which is quite slow but has good range and leaves you with the advantage even if blocked! On hit follow up with f+p,p,k.

What's REALLY nice in OS however is the presence of multiple easy mid combo starters. Her staple is uf+k+g which floats the opponent high in the air and where you can follow up with f+p,p,k again. There's also b,df+p+k which even though a bit slower can beat high attacks from disadvantage, giving you a guaranteed u+p pounce. Both those attacks are punishable on block though. If you want a safer option it's back to the hit-throws, this time with b+k+g > p+g. Vastly inferior to the DS version but hey, it's there if you need it ;) Finally, if you're feeling like showing off there's HCF+p which can be charged or canceled to a low attack :-D

OS vane has strong options on CH too: df+p will send them into the air where you can do f+p,p,k. Now, this won't work against wolf at all and against Goh, Lion and El Blaze you'll have to do p,k,p instead but aaaaaaaaanyway, it's still strong as your opponent gets knocked off his feet, plus the move evades some high attacks ;-) There's of course a CH hit-throw too, this time in the form of b,f+k > f+p+k (weird input for a hit-throw, i know) just in case you don't feel like taking risks with combo starters.

A special mention goes to F+k, a special high attack. This move will consistently beat low punches and cause a head crumple on CH. Even the easiest f+k,k,p,p followup does a hefty amount of damage.

In addition to these style specific moves, while-rising p from both styles will stagger your opponent on CH, f+k+g is a slow kick that slams down which you'll always have a use for in long range and, finally, b,b+k+g is even slower but you can low throw your opponent if the move connects :-D

Hope this helps.


  • If you are new to vanessa don't be phased by her movelist. Pick a style and learn it thoroughly first, then proceed to learn the other one. Leave the style switching moves last.
  • DS is a random collection of moves with awesome properties. Even though it's easier to begin learning vanessa with DS, be aware that learning DS first and relying on these awesome properties makes you a bad VF player ;-)
  • OS is generally harder to use because its moves are really unimpressive. No semicirculars, no sabakis, no crazy hitboxes, nothing. Its floats do wield more damage though. The style thus relies more on poking, faking, and evading successfully your opponent's attacks in order to place that floater.
  • Don't be afraid to use vane's neutral "hand hold" punch inashi from DS. It simply has the best risk/reward ratio in the game: do nothing to counter roughly a quarter of the moves in the game. Even if you are as surprised as your opponent it switches sides with them, for a possible ring out!
  • DS vane is the only character in the game who can punish moves that are -9 on block!
  • On the other hand DS p is the the worst jab in the game. The end.

What to do from OS

This i some advice i gave Katsudon who seemed to be unsure as to what he was supposed to be doing when he ended up in OS. There's some discussion about Intruder Step there too, check it out if you want. In fact check out Katsudon's VF blog in general - it's a good example of the various stages a VF neophyte goes through - from the initial exhilaration up to and including giving up. Ahem, anyway.

What am i supposed to do from OS?

That's a nice question. In fact i was asking myself the very same question when i first picked up Vanessa. This is my personal take on the subject:

You are supposed to go into takedown. Make them afraid of takedown. Takedown hurts if they don't guess right. Even if they guess right and they escape it, you're not at disadvantage afterwards. Having to constantly guess escape inputs affects morale. Nobody likes being on the floor constantly. Make them afraid. Spam evade p+k lancer a bit. Make them low punch.

Complement with pile bunker > pounce. Your opponent should stay on the floor. It's 14 frames, slams on any hit yet CDfuzzy safe on block. You can practically spam it. Make sure your opponent low punches.

…then proceed to launch them with the flying knee. They low punch you out of p,k!f+p+k lancer? Twice? Next time do p,k;uf+k+g. ;-)

That's how it works. It's a 50-50 deal. The same way VF5 Jeffry boils down to hitting you with d+k+g and then having you guess whether he'll do a throw or knee, OS Vanessa boils down to high attacks/takedown & knee.

Finally, don't be worried if playing with OS appears to deteriorate your DS performance. You'll come to realise that OS is the true newbie killer whereas DS is what you'll fall back when facing advanced opponents. Like opponents who know the frames well enough to know when to counterattack with elbow or knee (b,f+k/b,f+p+k sabakis) or opponents who try to eteg (circulars/semicirculars) or *gasp* opponents who try to space you (df+k/f,f+k) ^^

What to do from DS

Usually people ask for advice on how to play OS (offensive style). In fact there's *far more* discussion about DS (defensive style) in VFdc. But if you really need a quick-and-dirty guideline to get you started on DS, this is my advice:


If you are at disadvantage (usually meaning your opponent just blocked your previous move) —> choose between db+p; df+p or block.

If you have the advantage (usually meaning you blocked your opponent's attack) —> choose between p, f+k or throw.


Alternate between df+k; f,f+k or B (backwalk).

If you are new to the game don't try her other deflecting (sabaki) moves for now - they require intricate guesswork that you might find difficult to grasp. Instead try randomly throwing out some low punches, f+p strings and the good old tornado kick (k+g) once in a while to keep your opponents honest and you're set, insta-DS!

Round Openers

Just another list i compiled for VFdc. Seriously though, if you can boxstep efficiently you mix that up as Jeneric suggested.

OS openers

OS agressive openers are pretty basic, featuring common tools such as jab, low punch, elbow, fast launcher (f+p+k) & far reching mid (f,f+k). Additionally, the highly evasive b,df+p+k along with the highly damaging b,b+k+g enable OS vane to open rounds by baiting her opponent. Having such a well rounded arsenal can intimidate or frustrate an opponent, something OS can also exploit with its argessive throws (df,df+p+g & evade p+k).

  • b,b,df+p+k - Combining Russian Hook's high crush properties with a backdash, this sequence beats all short range moves, all highs & agressive dash > throw sequences. Additionally, it can often beat an opponent's evade > launcher sequence by provoking a failed evade & can sometimes cause a mirror backdash > launcher sequence to whiff. It basically just loses to far reaching mids. Since somehow nobody seems to block at the begining of a round, use and abuse this throw-counterable move while you still can, since its properties have been drastically altered in VF5R.
  • d+p - Good ol' cockpunch stuffs every attack & recovers fast enough to block an opponent who went for the evade > launcher sequence. Roughly speaking it only loses to slow jumping/anti-low attacks & backdash > launcher sequence. If you're content with doing chip damage and setting the pace instead of trying to score big damage from the get go, this is your move.
  • f+p+k - Pile Bunker is fast enough to interrupt most atacks and demoralize your opponent with an early float. This will definetly care of any "anti-low" or "far-reaching mid" ideas your opponent might have. It loses to many options though, such as high jabs, all lows, evade > launcher & backdash > launcher so judge wisely.
  • p,k - Contrary to f+p+k, you can't go wrong with using an 11f jab, except when faced with 10f jabbers that is! The string is fast, safe & hard to punish with evade > launcher or backdash > launcher due to forward momentum & a highly delayable 3rd hit. Being vulnerable to low attacks and anti-highs is a fair trde-off.
  • f,f+k - The above OS round openers can all be countered by a patient opponent using spacing to his advantage and waiting for vane to whiff. This is where the Landing Knee comes in: while it will lose to fast attacks, this far reaching, floor scraping mid guarantees there will be no backdashing shenanigans happening on your watch.
  • b,b+k+g - Combo potential alone justifies using a sluggish more like Back Charge Kick as a round opener. Losing half their lifebar just because they whiffed an attack is something that will definetly demoralize your opponent.
  • f+p - Well, OS has an elbow, there's no harm in using it. It can lose to lots of stuff, but on the other hand it probably won't be anything that takes half your lifebar away so, yeah, it can be useful to gauge an opponent's habits.
  • df,df+p+g - Something picked up from jeffry players, this exploits the fact that OS has a df,df input throw. Crouchdash > throw beats highs, evade > launcher & might clash with slower mids. It's far from the safest of options but, if you have good reflexes, you can train to hit the guard button instead of throw in time to block in case your opponents opens with an mid attack.
  • evade p+k - Sure, pulling a Brisal is hella unsafe but, the way i see it, if my opponent is groaning and trying to escape takedown moments after the round starts, i've already won. Same as b,df+p+k, use and abuse while you can since this rules breaking catch throw is going away in VF5R.

DS openers

DS openers are unconventional, as expected from DS afterall. Lacking both an elbow & a fast launcher, DS has to make up for it by using sub-par techniques. While she has quirky moves to make up for that deficiency, competent opponents will alternate between all of their possible openers, meaning that betting on the wrong sabaki can get vane killed. Sticking with faster moves seems like a safer bet.

  • d+p - Same reasoning as with OS, cockpunch is a low risk-low reward round opener, nothing more, nothing less.
  • p - DS doesn't have the luxury of OS p,k string or OS f+p+k so you'll just have to make up for it by trying to set up those damaging DS throws with vanilla jab.
  • (fuzzy) df+k - It's slow, it doesn't combo but, let's not kid ourselves, since we all know df+k is the best DS move, it might as well get spammed right off the bat. Bone Crush Middle is a safe poke that will counter any anti-high or anti-low punch ideas your opponent might have formed after seeing you open with the first two moves. While it will lose to punches, low punches & elbows, it does enough damage to stuff slower attacks and has just enough reach to nail a retreating opponent. Throw in some fuzzy guarding from time to time to throw your opponent's timing off and you've got yourself a deal.
  • df,df,WR p - Crush Jaw is a tough move to pull off but, if executed impeccably, somewhat makes up for vanessa's lack of 14f mid & fast launcher. While it will neither crouch stagger nor combo, it will at least beat everything except punch, low punch & other 13f mids and trade with elbows. If your timing is off it might lose to more attacks but might also beat high attacks & evade > launcher sequences due to the built-in crouchdash. Just make sure that (contrary to the way you input OS df,df+p+g) you pause between df,df and p otherwise you'll end up with df,DF+p.
  • db,db,WR k - Another weird input, this is the DS version of the "backdash > launcher" sequence. It only floats at CH but on CH vane will be in closed stance so the pppk float will work (except against a Jacky player who switched footing). Being +1 on hit doesn't hurt either. For the record, backdash > df+k+g can make the hit-throw whiff and f+k+g is on the slow side - we'll have to wait for VF5R to toy with better backdash > launcher sequences from DS.
  • evade > df+p+k - This is the DS version of the "evade > launcher" sequence. There's also the "hold guard, press punch" evasive attacks but the Boomerang Hook is much safer. While it happens to be high, the df+k+g alternative requires good input skills and (even if you manage to nail the hit-throw each time) lacks in the damage department.
  • f,f+k - If you can pretty much guess that your opponent will be taking evasive measures when the round starts, this is the move you're looking for. It completely shuts down backdashes, evades & sabaki. Just make sure your yomi is sharp because, being 21f exe, Shadow Slicer can be foiled by any agressive round openening strategy, including getting floated by the dreaded 17 frame knee.
  • B - Not the best possible opener but, hey, if you're planning to win by attrition you'll have to start harassing right away.
  • n - This is as "zen" as a round opener gets, and it's suprisingly effective: when left idle, DS vanessa will automatically inashi punches. This is neither a move (so no counterhits) nor a defensive action (so no 0f throws). Meanwhile you can always hit a button if you see your opponent doing something funny. In other words, by forfeiting immediate damage you can study what your opponent is doing and counter accordingly, making Hand Hold a good round opener when you first encounter an opponent.

Setups (under construction)

DS Back Turned Setups

To DS b+k+g einai mia sumpa8itiki klotsia, 16 frames execution, molis -4 on block, +2 on hit, +4 on CH, h opoia afinei tin vanessa me tin plati. Oi epiloges tis apo ekei einai oi e3is:

  • p+k head crumble on hit me float misis mparas san tou df+p+k, 15 frames execution, -2 on block kai special high!
  • d+k+g full circular kai i monadiki skoupa tis vanessa pou kanei down on hit

Exei kai merikes parapano kiniseis (p,d+p,k,d+k) alla se sxesi me to p+k den mpianoun mia. In fact ean i b+k+g kanei hit, mono kai mono o fobos tou p+k 8a upoxreosei ton antipalo na min kanei tipota allo ektos apo kato amuna, i esto fuzzy guard mias kai to d+k+g einai full circular opote pianei ta sidesteps. Exete loipon ena polu oraio setup gia df+pkg low throw ;-)

Setting up k+g

To k+g einai toso argo pou opoiosdipote paixtis me kala antanaklastika to skubei on reaction. H lusi einai na to kanete meta apo okizeme. Dustuxos pepeiramenoi paixtes to exoun kata nou kai fulagontai. H lusi? Kante tous na pistepsoun pos kanate la8os sto float sas! 8a nomisoun oti 8a kanoun tech se kapoia stigmi pou den to perimenan kai apo enstiktodi antidrasi eite 8a epite8oun eite 8a kanoun amuna. Ena well timed k+g 8a kerdisei kai stin duo periptoseis. Paradeigma: meta apo DS b,b+k+g anti gia to sosto float kano merikes fores u+k. Oi antipaloi kanoun tech apo suni8eia kai tous briskei to k+g ;-). Be creative.

OS oki with F+k or df+k

I recently (only a couple of years late) found a setup for Death Scythe: i try it after OS floats or DS floats that end with style switch knee to OS. After the float i hold the forward button and advance while my opponent falls to the ground. If i see they stay on the ground i am already close, thus i have enough time to stomp. If they techroll i have two options: if i think they are going to do anything else but guard i hit the kick button and F+k scores vanessa another float! If i think they will guard i roll the direction stick to the side and do df+k,pkg - connects on low guard and gives vanessa postitive frames on high guard.

Why df+k instead of f+p you ask? Well to be honest, my reflexes are not that good so i reckon "if they stay on the ground i get a stomp, if they move the midkick will connect"! Even if df+k is a bit slower than f+p I've not come across an opponent who would duck the second hit. I think it's because things are quite frantic ATM for them, having just suffered a float and having to immediately defend against a second one. Besides it has better reach.

So it's essentially 2 choice for vanessa. What's even better is that, if i really guess wrong and they get up with low guard and Death Scythe whiffs, the followup b,df+p+k can still nail them. Of course that happens quite frequently anyway but with the added stress of having just techrolleded at float and findeing themselves still under pressure etc etc the russian's hook magic seems to work even better.

Anyway, just watch round 2 of this match against Tony and you'll see how strong this it.

Stagger Followups

Einai xrisimo na 3erei kaneis ti na kanei se periptosi pou kataferei na kanei stagger ton antipalo. Prosopika apla kano df+k alla oriste merika stagger followups pou exo dei kata kairous:

Move & Stagger Type Float
DS k+g BLOCK STAGGER p+k,p;p,p,pkg
DS df+k WALL STAGGER f,f+p,p
db+p;p,p,p,k;df+k oki
OS Intruder Step k STAGGER df+k,pkg;p+k,pkg
OS f,f+p WALL STAGGER f,f+p;u+p oki
df+p+k;b,f+p,p,p,k;df+k oki

Acebreaker is my God, he managed to pull wall staggers from both styles in one match.

Btw, in another match he manages to pull wall throws from both styles.

Matchups - Choosing styles

aka. Which style against which character?

Short answer:


Long Answer:

According to Sebo from VFdc:

According to the black book Akira, Jeffry, Pai, and Wolf are the only characters where OS does better than DS.

Even longer answer:

Oi sumboules tou Black Book einai dikaiologimenes: enantion tou jeffry kai tou wolf den ginetai na pai3eis amuntika, ena la8os kai faugei i misi zoi. Kalutera mia sunexis api8esi.

Enantion tou Akira kai tis Pai o logos einai diaforetikos: oi mises tous epi8eseis den ginontai sabaki. Opote an den pianoun oi amuntikes texnikes tis vanessa toulaxiston as bgazei combos pou kanoun pio polu damage.

8a mporousame na pros8esoume sti lista allous 2 xaraktires, ton shun kai ton lei fei, apo tin apopsi pos einai kalutera na briskontai upo sunexi piesi oste na min arxisoun tous xorous kai ta panuguria. So it might be a good idea to start the game from OS, just to let them know you're not going to let them drink/dance freely. Feel free to switch back to DS if that doesn't work though.

Pisteuo pos oi upoloipoi xaraktires antimetopizontai kalutera apo to DS: lion, jacky, lau, brad, their punches can be reversed. If sarah gets predictable with mid kicks, DS b,f+p+k is your friend. if Kage decides to put the pressure DS b,f+k can bail you. Goh can't be reversed that easily but he can be out spaced. Aoi reverses EVERYTHING so DS is better because of un-sabaki-able mids & better lows.

Playing against Vanessa

  • Duck k+g

To k+g tis vanessa einai mia polu argi klotsia pou bgainei kai apo ta duo styles. Einai full circular, special high kai kanei stagger on block opote oute low punch, oute sidestep oute block endeikneitai. Gia arxi ma8ete na tin skubete, i vanessa einai anoixti an kanei whiff opote exete guaranteed throw, kai polu pi8anon kai free launcher. Otan to exete suni8isei kai nomizete oti mporeite na to deite noris kante p prin sas xtupisei - i vanessa ekeini ti stigmi brisketai ston aera kai 8a faei ena oraio float. Seriously, o monadikos pou to skubei consistantly einai o Xeno, c'mon guys, einai a8lia argi i kinisi.

  • Break f+p+g

To f throw opos kai to aplo tis throw bgainei kai auto apo tis duo styles. Kanoun kai ta duo to idio damage (40), h diafora omos einai pos to proto einai techrollable eno to deutero den einai kai o antipalos troei upoxreotika df+k oki. Episis ta wall throws tis kanoun 70ares kai bgainoun kai auta me f ;) Pera apo auto, ola ta Hit Throws tis apo to DS bgainon kai auta me f+p+g opote i dunami tis suni8eias enisxuetai. Telos sto VF4evo to f throw itan 0 frame disadvantage on break eno ola ta alla itan sto -6 opote upirxe sobaro enausma gia na spamaretai perissotero apo alla throws. Tora sto VF5 einai sta -2 opos ta perissotera throws tis vanessa (in fact ta b throws tis einai auta otan spane afinoun tin vanessa sta 0 fames alla sideturned, opote it still wins) alla old habits die hard kai polloi vanessa players e3akolou8oun na spammaroun auto to throw. Opote an einai na spasete ena throw, spaste to F throw.

  • Don't abuse low kick wake-ups

Otan bre8eite sto edafos xoris ukemi (suni8os meta apo throws), skefteite to duo fores prin siko8eite me low kick: i vanessa exei mia kinisi, to db+k+g i opoia pidaei pano apo lows gia ena float 1/3 tis mparas. H kinisi bgainei kai apo ta duo styles kai einai sxetika safe sta -6 an siko8eite me block. An o antipalos siko8ei me while rising kick, epeidi i vanessa einai sto aera oso kanei auti tin klotsia, i klotsia 8a tin peta3ei makria xoris na tou dosei eukairia gia kapoio float - to risk-reward ratio einai uper tis vanessa.

  • Beware of low throws

Peran tou db+k+g pou exei i vanessa enantion ton low attacks, ean kataferei na kanei block ena sweep pou afinei ton antipalo skumeno, mporei na timorisei ton antipalo me ena apo ta duo low throws tis. Polu xrisimo enantion Lion kai Kage sweep-happy players. Mias kai kanoun a3iologi zimia h sumbouli mou einai na prospa8eite na kanete ta sweeps mesa se strings opou uparxei ligoteri pi8anotita na antidrasei o vanessa player on reflex.

  • Don't worry about lows

Look ma, no lows! Apo to DS exei to d+k+g pou einai full circular, to db+k pou einai linear alla pio grigoro, kai to d+k pou einai combo floater alla mono se CH kai den skubei kiolas. Oso gia to OS, den mou paei kan i kardia na perigrapso ta lows tou… Apotelesma, pera apo low punch min perimenete na deite polla lows.

  • Don't retaliate after b+p

To b+p einai mia *polu argi* mid mpounia (exei kai pio argi bebaia, jesus), kata tin ektelesi tis opoias i vanessa kanei ena megalo bima mprosta, kaluptei arketo edafos kai kanei ena xaraktiristiko *hooomph*. Den kanei float i tipota tetoio alla dinei advantage on block opote sas to grafo edo gia na 3erete pos meta apo auti tin kinisi i vanessa exei to advantage se frames, gi auto stamatiste na prospa8isete na antepite8eite tufla an blokarete auti tin epi8esi. An 8elisete na tin apofugete apla na 3erete oti exei arketa megalo execution window (5 frames) kai mias kai einai toso argi merikes fores xtupaei ton antipalo afou ekeinos exei kanei sidestep. Anyway, i kinisi einai toso argi pou mporeite na kanete job tin vanessa out of it on reflex.

  • Know when Vanessa changes style

H vanessa exei 2 styles me polu diaforetikes idiotites - opote ma8ete na anagnorizete ton ixo pou kanei otan allazei styles me to pkg giati suni8izo na to kano stin psuxra gia psarotikous logous. To kako gia esas einai oti pia mporei na perasei apo to ena style sto allo me polu perissoterous tropous, meso orismenos strnigs pou teleionoun se pkg. Einai kapos api8ano na ma8ete na tous anagnorizete olous alla pros to paron den peirazei giati oute kai ego tous xrisimopoio para mono os combo enders giati bgazoun perissotero damage se merika floats. Apla na exete sto mualo sas oti meta apo floats i vanessa mporei na einai se diaforetiko style.

  • Duck OS lancers

To Offensive style exei polles kiniseis oi opoies teleionoun se takedown, gnosto kai os mount, me tin vanessa pano apo ton antipalo, mia stasi polu sexoualiki *ahem* sugnomi. Elega loipon, oi kiniseis autes xorizontai se treis katigories: lancers, fake lancers kai crimson lancers. H proti katigoria einai apla High Catch Throws, ek ton opoion to deutero spaei me belaki pros tin kateu8unsi pou ekane i vanessa evade kai p+g. H deuteri prokeitai gia cancel kapoion kiniseon sto High Catch Throws. Kai oi duo katigories antimetopizontai me skupsimo, throw, low attack, turn away atack, jumping attack, polla pianoun. H triti katigoria einai pio duskoli ka8os to high catch throw apotelei meros tou string kai petuxainei monaxa an to proigoumeno string kanei connect, pragma pou simainei pos i vanessa 8a einai se 8etika fames. Se auti tin periptosi endeikneitai to low punch giati (pera apo to gegonos oti o antipalos 8a exei polu ligotero xrono na antidrasei) patontas throw i aplo skupsimo 8a kerdisei to catch throw tis vanessa, logo 8etikon frames, eno to low punch se bazei amesos se animation skupsimatos. Isos pianoun kai ta jumping attacks alla den exo dei kanenan na to tolmaei. Telos nomizo oti to b,f+k CH f+p+k lancer tis einai unescapable, ti na po, min to fate se counterhit. Oriste kai oi kiniseis sunolika:

Lancers Fake Lancers Crimson lancers
f,f+p+k k,f+p+k b,f+p,p,b+p,f+p+k
evde p+k p,k,f+p+k d+k,p,b+p,f+p+k
f,f+k,p+k f+k,k,p,b+p,f+p+k
  • Escape OS takedowns

An sas parei to lancer kai bre8eite telika me tin vanessa apo pano sas kai arxizei na sas baraei mpounies, min psaronete, uparxei tropos na eleu8ero8eite: i vanessa exei 3 epiloges, mpounia, kato mpounia kai throw. Mporeite na eleu8ero8eite patontas amuna, kato amuna kai throw gia na spasete tin antistoixi epi8esi. Kai epeidi i sega eipe na afisei kai tipota ston goh kai tin aoi, se anti8esi me ta ground throws auton ton 2 paixton, enantion tis vanessa mporeitai na kanete multiple throw escape input, gia na apofugete kai ta tria ;)

  • Escape DS hand holds

Opos kai o jacky, h DS vanessa exei neutral punch inashi, to opoio ousiastika simainei pos ean i vanessa den kanei tipota ekeini ti stigmi kai o antipalos kanei psili i mesaia mpounia tote tou pianei to xeri se mia labi katastolis kai exei tin eukairia mesa se ena mikro xroniko diastima na tou antepite8ei. Sto VF4evo to xroniko peri8orio itan megalutero kai ta inputs pou eprepe na kanei vanessa itan paromoia me auta tou takedown, mono pou anti gia p,d+p kai p+g eixe k,d+k kai p+g. Sto VF5 ta pragmata alla3an, to xroniko peri8orio meio8ike simantika (se shmeio pou polles fores den prolabaino na to antilif8o) kai oi epiiloges tis vanessa eginan p,k kai p+g. Episis alla3e kai o tropos me ton opoio mporei na eleu8ero8ei o antipalos tis vanessa apo to hand hold: sto VF4evo eprepe na kanei unstagger (paromoio me auto tou multipart throw tou goh) eno tora exei multiple throw escape me p,k kai p+g gia na spasei tis antistoixes epi8eseis. Mou fainetai ligo periergo na uparxei throw escape me punch i kick, kai prosopika tis 2 fores pou exo pai3ei enantion kapoion vanessa players stin gallia den etuxes na mou kanoun hand hold (poutanies stin poutana?) gia na to testaro alla afou etsi leei to VFdc, etsi 8a einai.

  • Escape DS punch reversals

Peran apo ta hand holds i vanessa exei kai punch reversals. San na min eftane to redundancy, einai kai ta monadika reversals se olo to paixnidi ta opoia einai escapable. Kai na peis oti einai kati duskolo, apla patas p+g,p+g. Respect ston AkiraGR pou ta spaei sunexeia.

  • Dealing with DS backwalk

Oso apisteuto kai an akougetai apo to Defensive style i vanessa perpataei pros ta piso pio grigora apo oso kanei backdash. Oxi, den to bgazo apo to mualo mou, to exoun kai se ena thread tou VFdc os mia apo tis kaluteres tis kiniseis. Milame gia backwalk toso grigoro pou apofeugei punch strings apo pai kai lau. Den uparxei kati pou mporeite na kanete gi auto, apla na to exete upopsi sas gia na min psarosete an sumbei na apofugei i vanessa olo to string sas kanontas ton Michael Jackson. Epeidi paraponiontousan tosoi polloi gia tin taxutita tis sto VFdc egrapsa kai merikes sumboules sta agglika:

Vanessa backwalking is a pretty basic turtling technique. If they do her flying kick afterwards duck and throw them. If your reflexes are bad and you can't tell the difference from her other moves on reaction learn to recognise the sound she makes - she says "TAKE THAT" when she does that kick. that your cue to duck.

If you duck that a couple of times your average vanessa player will start using her mid crescent kick. That you must block. Be cautious afterwards, cause the move pushes back and they can backwalk to safety once again. Punishing tis move is very hard, i'd say either go for a catch throw or if you decide to punch back remember to keep the F button pressed down for your punches to have a bigger reach.

If you shut down those two moves most turtling players will resort to her midkick. If you see that, reverse or sabaki it, it's just a mid kick.

Finally, don't be afraid to use far reaching attacks like goh's f,f+k, jeffry's f,f+k, lion's f+k+g - vanessa's backwalk is good but if your move has good range it will connect if vane starts backwalking after you block deeep.

For more far reaching moves please consult the list of far reaching moves.

  • Closing up on her DS spacing game

Exontas e3asfalisei mia grigori upoxorisi me ti morfi tou backwalk, kai exontas sti dia8esi tis ergaleia opos to f,f+k (mid full circular) kai to df+k (mid crouch stagger) ta opoia sproxnoun arketa ton antipalo on hit kai on block, ka8os kai to proanefer8eis k+g, i DS vanessa mporei na prospa8isei na pai3ei ena paixnidi kratontas ton antipalo se apostasi. Sumfono oti einai mia taktiki gia deilous alla tin suni8izo otan kerdizo ton guro kai perimeno na teleiosei o xronos. Sunisto upomoni kai prosextiki epi8esi gia ligaki mexri na strimo3ete tin vanessa me ton toixo/tin akri tou ring stin plati. Apo tin stigmi pou den mporei na opis8oxorisei meta apo ena whiffed anaxaitistiko attack 8a mporesete na epibalete to ru8mo sas.

  • Duck DS G+uf/df+p

Oso periergo fainetai auto to input, toso perierga eiani kai ta properties autis tis kinisis. Prokeitai gia mia full circular high epi8esi i opoia exei build in sidestep. H kinsi einai argi bebaia kai exei mikro range alla kanei float on hit opote a3izei to risko. To gegonos oti i vanessa kanei sidestep apofeugontas linear epi8eseis alla paralila kanei mia kinisi, pragma pou simainei oti *den mporei na tin kanei o antipalos throw*, katastrefei mid/throw setups, idaitera to katarameno low punch -> while rising floater/while rising throw tis Pai. Ean breite oti sas enoxlei auti i kinisi, dokimaste na kanete kai tipota allo i esto prospa8iste na deite an i vanessa paei na kanei auti tin kinisi, opos eipame einai arketa argi.

  • Punish DS p,p,p,k & f+p,k,k

H idia i kinisi einai mia xazi mid mpounia, semi circular i opoioa to mono kaloeinai pos kanei float an o antipalos einai staggered alla, seriously, auto pou metraei einai pos ta f+p,k,k kai f+p,k,pkg einai 3-hit strings. To monadiko allo string me perissotera apo 2 hits pou exei apo auto to style einai to punch string tis, to opoio meta3u mas oute kai auto exei kati to ekpliktiko: p,p,pkg mid -6 on block; p,p,k low unsafe on CH (!) kai - omg 4-hit string - p,p,p,k throw countrable on block, high, kai apla down on hit, xoris float. Ase pou to punch string arxizei apo high. Opote dustuxos i vanessa einai upoxreomeni merikes fores na xrisimopoihsei auto to string enantion paixton pou exoun dei3ei oti mporoun na kanoun evade ta signle strikes tis giati parolo pou eiani kapos argo, toulaxiston arxizei me mid. Epofeli8eite loipon apo to gegonos oti to f+p,k,k einai throw counterable on block eno to f+p,k,pkg einai high gia na tin timorisete.

  • Tech roll after DS front sleeper

Prokeitai gia ta hit-throw pou bgazei i DS vanessa patontas f+p+g (f throw 4ever baby!) apo tis e3is kiniseis: f+k CH, df+k+g HIT, f+p,df+k+g CH. Sto VF4evo ebgaines kanontas struggle, sto VF5 omos dustuxos den mporeite na kanete tpt. Episis i kinisi apektise followup, patontas k. Parola auta anafero auti tin kinisi edo giati to k einai just frame kai duskolo na bgei consistantly (exei kai o jacky ena antistoixo kick se ena apo ta throws tou an 8umamai kala). Otan loipon den ginei to followup o antipalos peftei sta podia tis vanessa kai an den kanei ukemi troei df+k oki. Opote an pote deite i vanessa na sas kanei kefalokleidoma kante mash pkg se periptosi pou den bgalei to multipart na glitosete to light oki.

  • Don't try to punish OS hcf+p

To hcf+p einai i monadiki kinisi tis OS vanessa me ixnostoixeia amuntikon idiotiton. Tipota to e3airetiko, apla, logo tou input kai tou animation tis kinisis i vanessa apofeugei highs kai merikes fores mids kata tin ektelesi autis tis mid mpounias. Peran autou i mpounia mporei na ginei kai charge kai once charged mporei na ginei kai cancel se low punch. Oxi pos ta kano ego dld, eipame, an mporousa na bgalo hcf 8a epaiza cvs2 :P Prosoxi omos giati, frame-wise, i vanessa einai neutral on block opote min prospa8isete na antepite8eite me kana argo launcher,

  • Punish OS uf+k+g

To uf+k+g einai mia entuposiaki iptameni gonatia i opoia omos einai kara UNSAFE: i vanessa einai throw punishable kai ena kafe sto tria, milame gia -15 frames on block, mexri stigmis psaronete kai den exo dei kapoios na me kanei throw. Episis, parolo pou fainetai na pidaei i vanessa i kinisi den einai special high oute exei properties toso kala oso to db+k+g opote ena grigoro low attack tin kerdizei.

  • Punish OS b,df+p+k

To b,df+p+k einai ena 8iriodes hook to kata tin ektelesi tou opoiou i vanessa skubei, apfeugontas high attacks gia merika frames. Floater on hit alla argoutsiko sta 20 frames execution kai kurios throw counterable sta -12 on block. An mou bgei kata la8os epofelei8eite.

  • Punish OS df+k,k

Apo ta liga mid-mid tis vanessa, sta -14 i vanessa 8elei futema.

  • Duck DS b,f+k,p

To deutero hit einai special high kai +1 on block. Opote skufte to, afiste tin mpounia tin vanessa na perasei pano apo to kefali sas kai kante punish analogos.

Complaining about Vanessa

There's two kinds of complaining. The first type is from random, DoA-playing newbies who find her "cheap" just because they don't know the game enough to realise her obvious weaknesses. I got bored of posting the same reply over and over again over at the VFdc forums and decided to reply here, once and for all. So here goes:

If you're complaining about her k+g
it takes 38 frames to come off; if you can't duck it on reaction after seeing it for a couple of times it's your own fault; also if you have lousy reflexes maybe you should reconsider focusing on fighting games in the first place.
If you're complaining about her DS df+k
get a grip, it's just a normal sidekick, you can sabaki, reverse and sidestep it, if you keep blocking it at long range and then trying to punish immediately it's your own fault.
If you're complaining about her DS db+p
it's a 18-frame move that does a measly 18 damage, nothing guaranteed afterwards, even on CH (just +4); also, being a 18-frame move means it gets raped by any mid launcher; if you only spam highs and lows thinking VF is some kind of DoA it's your own fault.
If you're complaining about her DS f,f+k
it's a 21-frame move with no guaranteed followups; it's also punishable in closed stance, according to Jeneric.
If you're complaining about her DS sabakis
she either counters elbows OR knees OR low punches; if you're getting pwnd by them it's your fault for being predictable.
If you are complaining about her DS punch strings
get the fuck out, others have 10 frame jabs, ffs.

Of course nobody complains about her OS stuff (they like to win) and of course they keep overlooking that, for example Pai has a 14-frames double hopkick punisher (no clashing, no sabaki) or that akira has a 14-frame launcher whereas DS vane has nothing until 17i. Can you say double standards? ;-)

Update: apparently people do complain about her OS stuff — i guess ducking when you hear her sidestep lancer is too hard. Here's a full-fledged rant post, from the perspective of a Goh player.

Vanessa Wishlist

The second type of complaining is proper to me. You might have guessed from all this listings in the wiki, i like things being tidy and well ordered. I also like vane and wouldn't mind to see her movelist expaned. So here what that translates into:

b,b+k+g, D back charge setup
nowadays every style switching move is performed with pkg so SEGA please make the D into a pkg, for consistency's sake. VF5FS discarded all the pkg style-witching moves so there's no need for consistency anymore.
DS db+p sabaki hitbox is still bigger than the actual damage hitbox
it's been that way since i first touched the game, SEGA please fix it, for consistency's sake.
OS uf+k+g
is having absurd hitboxes and 3 types of floats intentional? The move must be the highest-hitting mid attack in the game, the amount of times i've seen it jump over low attacks without either player hitting is proposterous. SEGA do something, for consistency's sake please.
DS (hold G)ub/db+k is near-useless
by definition, moves that are not used = useless moves. Over the net there is not a single video where somebody uses this move, so SEGA please make it have some use other than being a humiliation move. Please? SEGa fixed it alright: it's been removed completely from VF5R.
OS f,f+k+g is near-useless
same as DS (hold G)ub/db+k the only use of this move is to humiliate the opponent. I think i've seen it being used once by acebreaker on an opponent who was lost the first two rounds straight and was down to his last sliver of health during the third round after a massive wall combo. Seriously SEGA, fix it or ditch it. Yup, ditched in VF5FS.
k+g is so slow, it could be cancellable
OK, this is totally a fantasy of mine but, you see, the same way the back charge kick can be cancelled with step out and setup, so could guard crash tornado; k+g,(hold kick)g could stop the move after her vane does her twirling motion and k+g,pkg twirl and change styles; they could even have cool names like "guard crash step out" and "guard crash setup". C'mon SEGA, i know you like shiny, spiffy names <3 Not happening, OS k+g got replaced in VF5R :-(
DS f+p+k could recover BT
this would allow for some more BT mixups; it would also explain why the followup is unsafe. Ditched - they just kept the f+p+k,p MDP followup.
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