Vanessa strategy by erdraug

Style Independent moves

Learning vanessa's movelist can be initially intimidating. Here's a list of moves that are practically identical from both styles that can help you survive if you become momentarily disoriented:

p
p,k
d+p
p+k
db+k
df+k+g
f+k+g
f+k
d+k
b,b+k+g
f+pkg
pkg
p+g

Vanessa 101

There's not denying that, in this version, OS is stronger than DS. So, before discussing further about each stance, here are the basics:

  • Don't be fancy, stay in OS.
  • If you find yourself in DS, your first priority should be to switch to OS.

What to do from OS

When you have a big frame advantage (+6 to +9):

  • f,f+k float vs abare, crouch, backdash (up close) / mixup vs guard (followups) / mount vs guard (cancel)
  • QCF+k float vs abare or evade to stomach
  • b+p knockdown vs evade to back, standing abare / mixup vs guard (delayed followup)
  • catch throw vs guard, evade or backdash

When you have a slight frame advantage (+1 to +5):

  • f+p+k float vs standing abare
  • uf+p float vs crouching abare, backdash / mixup vs guard (+2 on block)
  • p+k poke vs abare, backdash (up close), evade (delayed followup) / mixup vs guard (delayable followups)
  • throw attempt vs guard or evade

When your opponent has a slight frame advantage (-1 to -5):

  • fuzzy guard vs mid, throw or stepping
  • evade > p,p,k knockdown vs standing linear pokes
  • uf+p/uf+k float vs low or throw

When your opponent has a big frame advantage (+6 to +9):

  • (E(C)D)TEG
  • evade > f,f+k+g float vs linear launchers
  • uf+k float vs throws

When frames are irrelevant:

  • p poke vs standing attacks / mixup vs guard (followups)
  • df+k poke vs evasive attacks / mixup vs guard (followups)
  • db+p poke low vs standing guard, high attacks or (stomach tracking and anti-high/mid sabaki/reversals is a nice bonus)
  • f,f+k+g knockdown (wall splat) vs backdash, whiffed attacks / pushback vs guard
  • k knockdown string vs whiffed attacks, evade to stomach / mixup between p and k enders vs guard

What to do from DS

When you have a big frame advantage (+6 to +9):

  • df+p+k float vs evade to front, standing abare
  • f+p poke vs evade to back, abare, low guard / mixup vs standing guard (followups)
  • d+k float vs abare / poke vs standing guard (hitcheck required)
  • f,f+k vs backdash or evade
  • throw attempt vs guard or evade

When you have a slight frame advantage (+1 to +5):

  • k poke vs abare, backdash (up close), evade (circular followup) / mixup vs standing guard (delayable followup)
  • d+p poke vs fast abare
  • b+p+k float vs standing abare or backdash (up close)
  • throw attempt vs guard or evade
  • low throw attempt vs fuzzy guard

When your opponent has a slight frame advantage (-1 to -5):

  • fuzzy guard vs mid or throws
  • df+p poke vs standing
  • evade > df,df+p poke vs standing linear pokes
  • df+p+k float vs throws

When your opponent has a big frame advantage (-6 to -9):

  • (E(C)D)TEG
  • evade > df,df+p+k vs linear launchers
  • b,f+k sabaki poke vs punches and elbows
  • b,f+p+k sabaki float vs kicks and knees
  • df+p+k float vs throws

When frames are irrelevant:

  • b+p vs guard (+3 on block) or slower moves
  • f+pkg to switch to OS or whiffpunish
  • db+p+k poke vs highs or throws or vs backdash (up close) or vs guard (up to +2 depending on distance)
  • hold G+u/d+g vs elbows or evade (if you're lucky)
  • df+k side crumple / stagger vs backdash

The problem with DS

(Initially posted on VFdc)

I'm pretty sure DS b+p+k not launching on recovery counterhit (as well as f+k hit-throw not working on recovery CH but the damage is laughable AND escapable anyway) is one of the main reasons OS is more appealing than DS. As always, vanessa has to wait for +17 to get decent punishment damage.

Now, i'm not complaining, a p,k string was a major buff for DS, plus k,k comboing on recovery CH is great - but it's not really akira's standing palm damage territory. And with online opponents spamming unsafe launchers, being able to punish for decent, guaranteed (not throw-escapable) damage with f+p+k really favours OS.

Also successfully reading evades with OS qcf+k or OS d+k+g and PARTICULARLY successfully reading a low punch with OS uf+p also helps OS.

Quick, you're in DS and you just KNOW your opponent will low punch - what do you do? DS db+p for 20-ish damage and +2f? I guess, there's always DS jump > p for, dunno, 40-50 dmg? Only problem is, if your opponent elbows instead he's gonna take you for a ride > cue MvC2 music. The damage on OS uf+p is higher and getting CH seems to hurt less.

Same deal with reading evades - quick, you know your opponent will sidestep in DS. f,f+k will net you some damage and knockdown but it's slow; f+p,df+k some damage but leaves you at minus frames; df+p+k, now that's some serious sidestep killer. Yeah, if only the range weren't so short :( I've had many an opponent's blocked elbow > evade to vane's stomach avoid boomerang hook :(

OS qcf+k and OS d+k+g have great better range and the damage potential off them is certainly more exciting than the DS options.

To sum things up (again, with my limited experience) OS now seems to reward BOTH blocking and punishing AND outguessing your opponent. DS is stuck with outguessing your opponent. So preferring OS seems logical.

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